At a glance, Governor Chimaroke Nnmani is not a man that shies away from controversy. He will readily tell the unwary that only a few governors in the country are capable of doing what he has embarked upon in Enugu State. Yet the governor’s boldness cannot be faulted with what is on the ground. The governor had a chat with a group of journalists few days ago when he outlined his agenda for a post 2007 Enugu State. He also spoke about his widely reported schism with the Senate President. Habib Aruna, ASSISTANT POLITICS EDITOR was there. Excerpts:

There is no doubt that you have executed a good number of projects, which one would you say has given you maximum satisfaction?

I must first of all welcome you to Enugu State on behalf of the government and the good people of Enugu State. I believe that this interaction is in consistence with what democracy is all about and I hope that from your visit you will be able to see for yourself personally what is going on in Enugu State. I hope it’s not just you looking at structures, infra and supra structures but an opportunity, may be to talk to one or two persons. It is like asking a father which child do you love most? Is it the university? Is it the state-of-the-art university? Is it the 600 hectares of virgin land or the wonderful scenery, the state-of-the-art hostel blocks with over eight faculty buildings, customised for the various faculties, the theatre, the auditorium, the VC’s Lodge sitting on the hill, the road network, water and electricity? Is it the teaching hospital, modern teaching hospital, medical school with all its facilities? Is it the International Conference Centre or the third arm judiciary or Loma Linda Housing Estate? So, which one? I just believe that even with all those projects, I think we are just starting, I think the story hasn’t begun yet, we are just young men in our 40s, we can’t just start talking about achievements, we are just beginning, that’s the way I look at it. The story has not been written yet.

It is a surprise that a governor, who is rounding off constitutionally in 2007, is embarking on these projects. Can you give us an insight on your motivation for these projects and life after 2007?

One of the problems we’ve had in our society in our emerging democracy is what we can also describe as accidental leadership, artisans as leaders. We choose leaders by mere accident of history. Commission agents or people who benefited from political patronage or people who benefited from distortion in the system, who otherwise in a stable politics would not have found any use or nobody would have voted for, but because of the attendant poverty and distortion in the polity now find themselves in positions of power. So you are asking me essentially why are we doing what we are doing? I’m saying that before leaving America to come back to Nigeria, I realised that Nigeria like any emerging Third World country had some strategic problems with the leadership. What I mean in problem of the leadership is that there is no doubt that there is a distortion of the social life efficacy, things are falling apart and if things fall apart, a mediocre will emerge, the crucial system that is distorted is bound to throw off actors and many heroes or many characters. So you find out that the true leadership class in the context is sidelined, they are sidelined because those who profited from the system by being at the right place at the right time benefited from political patronage. These are described as artisans. That is a leader without mission, without programme, political pedestrians, and people moving through the corridors of power, moving from one political party to another, from regime to regime that do not have the interest of the people. So when I left America to come home I knew it was a problem I was going to confront. I also knew that democracy in our land here was largely experimental. When you say that you are transiting, you are going through a transitional programme, although you will agree with me that something that is transiting is transition. It is inherently on the people and therefore experimental. And I also noted clearly that all the forces in this world will not protect democracy in Africa. What will protect democracy in Africa through something concrete, something that the Africans can touch, something different and something that can change their lifestyle: roads, water, electricity, and employment, providing enabling environment for the private sector to thrive, freedom, justice, equality and self-freedom. That is what we describe as dividends of democracy. When people invent democratic process, what do they get in return? But you know that with globalisation we have an open society. Globalisation is all about developmental governance, information technology and privatisation. Today, Nigerians have seen other societies that have democratised because of democracy. So they expect those things; that is the gap crisis. So, for them to fight for democracy, they must have something they are fighting for, that is why we decided to go back to the field, as it were and show our people something in return for their expected dividends of democracy. So we cannot at the age of 45 start talking about achievements or what have we achieved, what landmark. We can’t start talking about motivation, you can’t write our history now; it is too early. What motivation? We are trying to be part of the Nigerian society to be part of the history of our people. Have you forgotten that we are representatives of a lone tradition and heritage of excellence and delivery? We sit on the seat and we carry the banner once held by Professor Eyo Ita, Nnamdi Azikiwe, Michael Okpara, Odumegwu Ojukwu. These are extra-ordinary people. We have a heritage within the Government House built by Okpara; across we have the Legislative Building built by Okpara. So we are building the third arm, the judiciary. We have a university that has been there over 20 years without permanent site, so we are building the permanent site. So we want to be accommodated in such history. We don’t want history that we will just pass through. We want to make visible differences in the life of the people. We want to uphold certain level of excellence. We are not doing it for anybody. It’s a resolved history, social change, hospitality and humanity. Each man has a mission on earth, the issue is not just to come and have children on earth, build houses and eat. Man’s mission is to put smiles on people’s faces. Who did you change, how did you change the environment? We have an opportunity at this age and we also have the power and all we are trying to do is to deploy that power effectively to change our environment so that it can never be said that we did not come through history. If you say that we came through them, we did it 100% and we will change the society, but nobody can bet we did not change it. By changing Enugu society, I believe we have left something tangible for the whole world to look at.

Having spent so many years in the United States practicing medicine, do you think it is worth the while your sojourn in politics? Secondly, the National Political Reform Conference recently came to a hitch over resource control issue, as a major player in the politics of the nation, how do you think that this impasse can be arrested and how can these resources be equitably shared?

Well, thank you. A lot of my colleagues out there, I think, are also doing well. What we are doing in Enugu State, we always say to God be the glory. We have said to God be the glory many times but people don’t take it serious anymore. Sometimes, they think we say to God be the glory because we feel like saying it. We say to God be the glory even on a personal level. I cannot rationalize my presence here. I cannot explain it. I’m a maternal – fetus medical specialist, I went to medical school, I read Obstetrics and Gyneacology, I became a specialist in Obstetrics and Gyneacology, I went to do a super specialisation in Fetus Medicine. I acquired skills by 32, you know what American dream means if you have a Porch in a garage, you have a million dollar, house, a wife and children. That’s American dream for you. Here, I am sitting down here for the past six years as the governor of Enugu State. How do you explain it? How do you rationalise it? This is my first job in Nigeria, this is my first house where I lived in, the staff car is my first car, so how do you explain it? How do you organize it, how do you arrange it? So only God can have the glory for what is going on in the state. We have a commitment of over N30 billion worth of projects of which we have paid up for some of them, and that is in spite of the fact that we receive as low as about N800 million, sometimes N1 billion, sometimes N1.2 billion monthly in terms of allocation. I can tell you today that we spend about N500 million every month for the past few months, but very soon I believe we are going to be paying about N800 million every month by the grace of God, I believe till March next year or at least till October. This is because we are trying to finish some of these projects by October, projects like the teaching hospital, the tunnel, Nza link road, Ozalla road, the judiciary will be finished by October, so we decided to increase the payment, we are going to do that till October and see whether we can push it all the way to March. We are using the remaining N400 million to pay civil servants salaries, which is about N20 million, teachers salaries which is about the same, subvention to the state university and polytechnics, then impress account and overhead for the various ministries and parastatals and the course of running government, so we just have a recurring overdraft. So, we are in pursuit of excellence, we have an acute awareness of history, awareness of man’s mission on earth, awareness of our people’s plight. What we have is a cacophony of perennial laxity in the polity; men who for years have tried to distract people. The issue is about poverty. It is about debt burden, about democracy, that is the debate. The debate is about in fact mortality, maternal mortality, HIV/AIDS, malaria. It is about basic education, gender empowerment developmental governance, and environmental protection, which is the debate I would like to participate in. You are going to talk about true federalism, fiscal federalism, right to freedom, right to information. You talk about the dignity of the people when we are talking. What I am talking about basically is that the elite, those who have spent their lives in the corridors of power controlling the lives of our people according to their whims and caprices, they will continue like that. But the most important thing is how the debate can affect the man on the street. How does it relate with sons and daughters of the tradition. The sons and daughters of the Hausa Fulani, the Nupe, the Gwari, the Jukun and the Igalla. You have to remember that we are multi-ethnic nation. As African people, we had our tradition, and we had foreign relationship with even the colonial masters before we became a nation state. How do we relate with each other, how do we talk to each other, how do we share our resources, how do we police ourselves? That is the debate. I will not seat down here and start talking about how we share the resources. I have gone beyond that, I am not going to sit down here and say whether we share 50%. We are not looking at the big picture; we are looking at part of the polity. The issue is the multi-ethnic African people who have become a nation, whether it is reluctant or not, the reality is that we have become a nation. How do this African people leave together under one nation, how do they share their joy, how do they govern each other, how do they relate to each other, how do they police themselves, what future do they leave for their children? But the elite will come and say, no, give us this, give us 25%; that is not the issue.

How do you relate with the Senate President. How cordial is your relationship with him?

Why is it that human memory is too short? Have you forgotten that I came back to this country in 1996 and we got into office in 1999 and we waged a war here with many political opponents for four years? After four years, a new political class emerged. Are you not aware of it? Suddenly people are talking about Senate President. Who is Senate President? You are talking about Jim Nwobodo’s seat that we replaced with somebody? Is that not the issue? What is new? If we did not fight to remove Jim Nwobodo, would he be a Senator or Senate President? Why is man’s memory so short? What is new? What has changed in the political landscape? You have one senator among 109 selected to chair a college of his colleagues. Is that not what it is? A senator selected to chair a college, a meeting of his colleagues, is that not what Nigerians call Senate President? We say we have a constitutional democracy, presidential democracy. How many times do you hear about the Senate President in America? Why is our own different? Our own is different because they have elitist agenda. They are the people who want to control the agenda and our daily lives, create jobs where there are no jobs; they make news where there is no news. Nothing has changed in Enugu State; the political equation in Enugu State has not changed because we are talking about a new political structure that has emerged, a new political class from the ward executive all the way to the top. Can’t people give us some credit, that people who join politics the other day, we have ministers, senators, we have Senate President? Can you be a Senate President without being a Senator? He has not even been the Senate President two or three months, this is something of yesterday. First because people are trying to create a total, new exhibition. The Senate President has always been there. How many? Four, five, how many? So what is new? The government and people of Enugu State welcome the opportunity that we have the Senate President. When he was elected, we shut down the state for almost two days, shut down the government for almost two days to receive him. So what has happened? The issue is not about Senate President;, they are diverting issue. The issue is that we are maintaining peace and tranquility in Enugu State, completing our projects and going through a good transition to the next government, that’s the agenda. The Senate President will come and go just as the others had come and gone, but the bottom line is Enugu State, that’s the agenda.

Having gone round the state on projects inspection, it is observed that your government spent its money on some federal projects, such as the Air Force School and Law School but the state government is yet to be recover its money, what is the situation now, has there been any attempt for a refund?

In Enugu State we are not really trying to differentiate because it will have little or no impact on the people whether it is Federal Government or state government. I’m sure you know we built about 500km asphalt roads some of which are Federal roads. We have received refund of about N1.4 billion or thereabout from the Federal Government for roads built. That is good enough for us. For the Law School, we are claiming about N800 million, it has not been refunded. That’s not the issue, but the mere fact is that the Law School is in Enugu State and we are happy. Whenever they refund us, fine. The Air Force School, we are happy we have an Air Force School in Enugu State, that’s good enough for us. Whenever they come to refund us, no problem; we have no problem with it.

Sometimes very good projects are truncated when a new government comes in. How do you intend to make sure that it outlives you? Because when you leave office 2007, some other men might come in and truncate issues.

This is a fundamental issue that I have had cause to address several times. The Igbo will say that “Nna na-ekpe ekpere ka nwa karia ya”. Translated in English to mean that a father prays that his son will be greater than him. So we have no reason whatsoever to entertain fear that government that will succeed us will not be better than us. We have that level of confidence; we know that the people that will come after us will probably be more educated, younger, hard working, may be more relaxed. We pray that tomorrow will be greater than today, so we have no doubt whatsoever that we will have enough people in Enugu State who will succeed us for whom we pray will do more. They may have more resources, they may have more access to communication, to computerisation, globalisation, would have more impact on debt burden reduction drive. This is an indication that democracy has thrived and succeeding. So, we have no doubt whatsoever, that they are going to face a brighter future. So we like our people to look at the future with greater optimism. The future of Nigeria, the future of Enugu State is very bright where people see dusk, we see a brighter new dawn; where they see others’ faults, we see rainbow in the sky.

How is your thinking concerning how far democracy has gone in Nigeria and then one would want to ask about your interest in the coming days?

I believe democracy has taught us that we owe a lot of this to the efforts of our President, who if there is any translation he can be described as an African president; the president that has got the country from a near failed status to a country that is playing major role not just in West African sub-region, but also in Africa and in the world over. You should recall that it has become a tradition to talk about debt reduction, since it was started in Nigeria, you must remember that the President brought the issue of debt reduction to elementary level, to the level where all of us can talk about and understand it. You can now believe that the so-called western nations are now coming back to face the reality of debts reduction. I believe the President has been able to bring to a level of sensitisation, so that the western powers can now address that global problem. It has become clear that debt has to reduce for you to enjoy your wealth. It has become a major foreign policy. So, for our President going from country to country, from continent to continent, I believe to arrest the issue and that is why we have achieved such magnitude of debt reduction. You cannot give $18b reduction to a country that cannot pay, where democracy is not being practised, to a country where reform is not working, where anti-corruption is not working, to a country that is not stable, it does not happen. So the Nigeria President cannot move from here and go to Togo, to Guinea Republic, Benin to France or other European nations and United States to say that things are not well in Nigeria. So I believe that democracy has come to be. I believe that the reform process is working, anti-corruption is working. I believe that the foreign policy has reached a crescendo. So I believe democracy has come to stay. I also believe that it is the responsibility of the press and other social critics to have direct debate, to increase their enlightenment and sensitisation, so that democracy can stay further.

What role would you play after 2007?

It is a very good question and very relevant question. What role do you see me playing after 2007? We are here today to address the issue of what role am I playing now. I am building a university on 600 hecters of virgin land, there would be nothing comparable to it in Nigeria. The only thing that can closely be compared to it may be the University of Ife. We are talking about a state government implementing a total master plan of university site. It has never happened in the history of this country – complete master plan, hostels, faculty buildings, residential buildings, administrative headquarters, roads, water, electricity, even power supply. It will be ready for completion by the grace of God, by March next year. We are talking about a state government building a teaching hospital, medical school with full master plan. We are talking about a state government building the first dual road carriage tunnel; underground tunnel way in Nigeria. That is the role I am playing today. When 2007 comes, God will have his glory and we will see what happens.