On August 13, 2005 news editors of some national newspapers embarked on
an inspection tour of on-going projects in Enugu State, after which
the state governor, Dr. Chimaroke Nnamani granted them
an interview. Here are the excerpts:

There are speculations of what becomes of Dr. Chimaroke Nnamani after May 29 2007. Some people believe you are repositioning yourself for the Vice Presidential slot. Some others say you simply want to go to Senate, yet there is another group of people who believe that you will rectum to United States to continue with your Medical Practice, to avoid your political opponents, many of whom are now lying low due to one reason or the other. What will you tell us precisely on what you will be doing after May 29th 2007?

My priority will be to complete these projects. I am sure when you looked at the projects, it is difficult to imagine that it could be completed virtually within the next six (6) months to one year, talking about the University, the Teaching Hospital, the Tunnel, the Conference Centre, the Judiciary Headquarters, the Housing Estate, the many roads and bridges. So my priority is to complete these projects. If I complete these projects, then hopefully I am a professional, I should be able to find somewhere to do some teaching, to do some research and also engage in critical consciousness. Those who know me know that I do not position for anything, what I want, I go for it. And the issue of political opponents does not really arrive because we are in complete control of the po1itics of the State. So, I believe that a successor government will likely come from within us. So the opposition will continue in hibernation for a very, very long time, except for few cases where people masquerading as our friends eventually turn out to be opponents. If not, one would expect that there wouldn't be any problem.

One would like to ask, where do you get funds for all these projects, how much is your allocation from the Federation Account and where else do you make money to complete these projects?

Our allocation on the average is about one billion naira every month. It could go anywhere from eight hundred million to Nl.2 billion. But in Enugu, we always say "To God Be the Glory". We say, "To God Be the Glory", because we cannot explain how we are where we are or how we are doing what we are doing. We cannot necessarily rationalize it. We believe that the inalienable light of any person is the right to dream, and we dream and we dream big dreams. We set challenges for ourselves always. We go out to conquer those challenges, so we live virtually on day-to-day bases struggling to survive, but the most important thing is the determination but most of the expression will be left to God and the Glory to God too.

On the issue of 2007 Presidency, the South East Governors, and the Ohanaeze. I want to know your position actually. Do you want the Presidency in 2007 or the Vice-Presidency?

I discuss that issue based on merit, based on excellence, based on antecedents, based on achievements and also based on the current reform process going on in the country, the movement of Nigeria to join the global community. Globalization anchored on information technology, anchored on privatization, anchored on developmental governance, which we call democracy. So, under that reform process and globalization, the only ingredients or criteria necessary are merit, excellence, achievement, commitment, loyalty; these are the parameters I discuss.

How long has these projects been on, and why did you wait for the second term for us to see these concrete projects and in your first term, do you have projects that you completed?

Yes, as you know, most people when you get into second term, people are on their way out. It actually shows the level of commitment that we are doing most of these projects in the second term. In the first term we did over 300 kilometers of asphalt road done by STRABAG, roads like Opi-Nsukka, Obollo Afor – Ogrutte road, the Ozalla – Agbani -Nara road, Enugu and Nsukka urban roads. We did a lot of roads, over 300 kilometers in the first term. We did the Law School in the first term, which is a first class tertiary university facility and handed over to the Federal Government. We did the Airforce School in the first term, we did over 24 cottage hospitals, we electrified 150 communities, water projects, etc.

You told us that all the construction projects are handled by one company, an Italian company. Do we take it as an indictment on Nigerian indigenous contractors and construction companies? Secondly, on the area of tourism, we have seen what is going on around the country, Federal Government commitment as well as the States' and sometime ago I heard something about a kind of village for people who produce home videos. I was expecting that you would let us into some of these things. I know that tourism is one of the industries that the income goes directly to the grassroots, to the people, so, are you doing anything in this area?

It is not necessarily an indictment on the local contractors. In the first term we used the STRABAG for virtually all we did before STRABAG left Nigeria. We are now using Marlum Nigeria Limited. The obvious advantage is that we do not have to mobilize different contractors, because if you mobilize different contractors for different projects, it is not going to be easy for us to do considering the capital outlay available to us. Secondly, if you have different contractors, you have to continue payments as are generated on each project. But if we do payment it is left for them to know how they share it. So what happens is that they cannot abandon the projects, you cannot have variations because our projects are not variable. Once we are committed to regular payments, they cannot stop work because they can only make their profits at the end of completion of all the projects. I am sure some of you may be aware of the Liaison Office we just completed at Abuja. There is no liaison office in Abuja like that, for those who have had the chance of looking at it or seeing it in the picture, there is nothing comparable, there is not even a near second in terms of liaison office buildings, even where it stands and among the Federal Ministry of Finance, it is about the best architectural masterpiece in that area. We have on few occasions used indigenous companies and we have been disappointed. Maybe one or two buildings at the university or at the teaching hospital. There is always a tendency, may be due to financial difficulties for the indigenous contractor to eat into the capital that he is supposed to use and do the job. So if there is any delay in the payment for any of the projects, he just goes down. Also in the issue of supervision and use of materials, some of these international companies have their reputations on the line and you find a lot of them delivering because they are not under as much pressure as the indigenous companies. It is not an indictment; it is just a secret of how some of these things seem to be happening. Work goes on at all the sites actively at the same time. Talking about tourism, we are absolutely aware of that situation and we are developing some parks within the metropolis. Enugu is a natural film village in the sense that they have been shooting movies there for years, we just have to find a way of formalizing that relationship. We recognize tourism being a big earner and it is one of the big areas we are focusing, tourism and agriculture, in addition to the aggressive infrastructure development that is going on in our State.

What are those various steps the State Government has taken to open up the state to investors and again can you give us a picture of the State's investment profile?

If you look around you will see a lot of containers and road-side shops. We have left them on purpose because it is a dilemma as to removing them for a ecstatic reasons, but we have chosen to leave them there, since we believe that government has not fully fulfilled its social contract to the people, and where they are trying to make a living on their own we decide to leave them alone. When we came here, we had about 5 banks, now we have over 45 banks in Enugu. We have an expansion of the building industry, I'm sure you saw all the building projects going on. It is in response to the economic pressure and also movement from Kano, Kaduna and other areas with the disturbances that happened a few years ago. The fact that the largest simple investment in this country since this current democratic experiment is in Enugu State, the Nigerian Breweries PIc., the largest brewery outside Europe confirms that Enugu is indeed an investors’ haven and investments are pouring in.

Seeing all the capital projects going on, one is wondering if other sectors of the economy are not suffering. Are workers being paid their salaries regularly? Secondly Sir, only recently one of your colleagues was removed by the judiciary, how do you react to that event?

Starting from the second one, I don't believe that he has been removed. The tribunal ruled against him. He has 21 days to appeal; meanwhile I believe he still remains the governor of Anambra State. One can say that some of the sectors have indeed suffered, but if you look at it in a realistic sense, what has been going on in our country is reverse pyramid in terms of expenditure pattern. Enugu is one of the States that is in the forefront of reform. We have our due process and what we call budget evaluation and monitoring unit, where priorities are set right. A committee set up by our development partners DFID and also NGOs to reflect a true pyramid, so that whatever expenditure we have, the bulk of the fund if it is health, will get down to the people either in form of drugs, capacity building and in form of equipment. So you see when we are building a university, it is money to education. When we are building a teaching hospital, it is money to health. It has not affected our commitment to our workers, if it had affected our commitment to our workers, I am sure you would be hearing about it. So we are current on our emoluments. Our workers are certainly not complaining.

What are you doing for the rural people because it appears that your attention is only in the State capital?

Let me discuss the holistic reform process so that you can understand what is going on. When we started initially, we talked about dividends of democracy, which is essentially giving people something in return for their votes, in which case their votes are like investments, it is like shares and what they get in return are roads, water and electricity, compared to the advanced democracies where you talk about justice, equality, fair play, where they demonstrate over religion, school prayer, uniform, that is democracy here too. But democracy means more than that, so we concentrated on the dividends of democracy, building roads, water, and electricity. During our second term, it suddenly dawned on us that it is all about poverty. The agitation, the restlessness, the entire confusion in the land is all about poverty, because if you say that the poverty rate is 67% or 87%, whatever affects this segment of the population is serious business. So even before the Federal Government did their NEEDS, we went through our poverty reduction strategies and fashioned out how to tackle poverty. So whatever we are doing is in consistence with poverty reduction. So what are we doing for rural areas? We have our Ministry of Human Development and Poverty Reduction. So let’s say we are doing School-Meal-Plus programme, which we have been doing in Enugu State since January 2004, which is, we provide one meal a day. But it is called School Meal Plus because it is more than a meal. But for that index child he receives annual health check up to check for dentition, sight, hearing, things like attention deficit disorder, vitamins supplementation, malaria prophylaxis. For the mum, if she is pregnant, is she within the ante-natal care system? For the siblings, are they in school? We also have what we call early childhood learning centers. Enugu State has the most advanced early childhood learning centers, these are pre-care, kindergartens, then within the elementary schools. For the satellite communities where you have the School-Meal-Plus programme going on, the rural water and sanitation agency is going to do VIP latrines and either deep or shallow wells within those communities, working with the Rural Water and Sanitation Agency or working with a programme called the SLGP, which is a programme supported by the DFID. So with SLGP you get water using the School Meal. It is a holistic programme. You get water, VIP latrines to the communities under the same programme. If you are looking at the reform process through our health district system, we have the rehabilitation of the health centers, SLGP will get electricity, even though the health center is a target, you will get a rural electrification or generator or a transformer there. So we are developing our rural areas through the reform process, either through SLGP which is the State and Local Government Programme or through the Rural Water and Sanitation Agency or through a new programme with the DFID and World Bank - LEEMP - Local Environment and Empowerment Programme. This is a programme where the various communities set up committees identifying what they want to do and then supported by the communities contributing either human resources or land and then local and state governments and World Bank or through the CDCC - Community Development County Council. So we are doing our rura1 development through our Community Development County Councils, through a partnership with our development partners. So there is a lot going on in the rura1 areas. The DFID has a commitment of over 4 Million Pounds for equipping our health district centers.

You don't seem to have more passion for agriculture, because I have not really seen on ground both in 2001 when we first visited here and today, things to suggest that you are taking that profession seriously? I am also interested in what the Chairman of the Board of Trustees of the PDP said at the Commissioning of the Enugu State Liaison Office in Abuja, that you are one of the Governors that are not going about seeking recognition for Vice Presidential ticket. That statement is weighty, that you know, weighty in the sense that you have been singled out amongst your colleagues, and I want to ask if at that level the party wants to seek you out in 2007, either for that position or another that is higher, are you going to say no to it? Finally you have done a lot to re-order the order in Enugu State, that is routing the old status quo. Do you have a regret for doing that and should they want to join you, are you going to say no?

We just took a tour that took us about an hour or two. I am not going to take you to Ada Rice or to any plantation. There is always a tendency to look at the concrete infrastructure than look at investments in agriculture. But definitely we do have concrete programmes going on in agriculture with rice mill, on-going effort to implement a fruit juice factory, work on rehabilitation of feed mill within Enugu and of course participation in agricultural programmes especially micro-credit programmes and also extension work. However, we are trying to re-focus on the area of cassava. We have a proposal for what we call the Cassava Centers of Excellence that is going to cost about N8 million each. It is a programme by the grace of God we will be able to re-focus and implement before we leave. But I understand what you are saying. You also have to understand that by opening up our rura1 areas, by providing infrastructure, you are going to have direct effect on the farmers, if that is the major pre-occupation of our people.

The second issue is that I am not addressing that area. It is not my priority now, the area of what will happen in 2007. My priority is to get these projects done. If I can get these projects completed, I don't see any other affirmation that one can have. If at this age I can be involved in the process of seeing a university, a teaching hospital, an International Conference Center, housing projects, judiciary complex, I don't know what other accolade that God has not given to me. So any other thing that comes along we will take it in our stride. On the third issue, I am not in a hurry and certainly, I am not a troublemaker but I am not in a hurry to join the house of serpents and very dangerous and heartless actors in the field. I am not in a hurry to commune with them. Let us put it that way. There are over 30 political parties and people are free to join whatever party they want to join, but I am not in a hurry to commune with a virulent opposition, that is the essence of democracy. There are so many other parties but I won't be in a hurry to commune with them. A new political class has emerged in Enugu State. I’m probably the oldest member of that new generation which is now in complete control of the political leadership of the state. For that generation to assert itself, the old order were dislodged not in terms of age, but politically they were certainly dislodged and whatever you call accommodation, accommodation does not mean that everybody is in the same party or in the same boat, there are over 30 parties, you go and join which ever party you want to join. So we are not going to associate ourselves with a situation where people will cunningly come back into the fold only to weaken, divide us, fight us and provide a bigger battle, I am not in a hurry for that kind of accommodation, that is not my style. I do my job and get away, but I am not going to actively encourage people to re-enter the fold rather to divide us and go away to fight us. I won't do that. There are many other political parties. But our hands are open to genuinely welcome those who mean well to us, and a lot have certainly come back. Whoever wants to come back can come back, you go to your ward and register.

I just want to go back to what you said about the road to attaining the Presidency. Talking about how the South-East Governors and Ohaneze are putting it. I will like to know if you are pointing out those factors to Ndi Igbo as the things they need to imbibe to get the presidency, and are you saying that with this, the state of Igbo land now educationally, politically etc., can give the Igbos the leverage added to these factors to get the Presidency in 2007?

I am not looking at it as an Igbo, Hausa/Fulani or Yoruba issue. I am saying that in consistence with globalization, consistence with reform is an issue of what do you bring to the table. If you are going to pilot the airplane of the nation-state, you are going to be the best pilot. If you are going to captain the ship of the nation-state, you are going to be the best captain. Because of globalization we will join the comity of nations, the comity of nations without borders. So you put your first eleven on the table. That is why when you are looking for a Minister for Finance, you do not go for Igbo, Hausa- Fulani or Yoruba. If you are looking for the Governor of Central Bank you don't go for Igbo, Hausa-Fulani or Yoruba, if you are looking at the people who will run your privatization, if you are looking at the first eleven of your football team… So you see Nigeria is fast changing, but because we are part of the process we are not noticing that change. It is like a child growing up in your house with you, you don't notice the height or the centimeters they add on everyday, but unconsciously the mere fact that you have Igbos running these segments and nobody is complaining.

Taking you back to the issue of housing, in all the projects we visited, I noticed one thing, and that is that most of the houses are actually for the upper echelon of the society. Apart from the junior staff quarters at the University, almost all the other ones are for the upper echelon of the society. Why is it like that?

No, it is not correct. We did not take you to all the housing projects. What you saw could be described as the bird eye view of the state, you have not seen it all. We have Harmony Estate at Abakpa, where you have housing for junior staff. We did not take you to 9th Mile where we are doing the Ebeano Bye-Pass connecting the NB Plc area to the express road. We did not take you to Nsukka where we are doing Nsukka-Ogrute-Ette road. So you have to understand that we took you to an area that is very easy for us to go round and come back. Certainly we are not doing as much as one would have expected in the area of low cost housing. But we have done quite some work, quite some work at Obukpa in Nsukka and also at Abakpa, the Harmony Estate. But our commitment to Loma Linda Estate which is 3-bedroom flats is also middle class to lower-middle class. But I am not satisfied with what we have done in the area of low cost housing, even myself, I am not satisfied. I believe that more could still be done, but we can't do everything. Government is continuous. If only we can complete the ones we have done, the others will have less left to do.

I want to know how much you are committing into each of the projects, and again where do you want to see Enugu State by 2007 when you are expected to leave office?

The total commitment is somewhere around N36 billion, but I don't have the details in terms of the cost of each project. The university is running well over N14 billion, the hospital is about N5 billion - N6 billion. Some of these contracts are tied together, like the Judiciary complex is tied with the Loma Linda Housing Estate, the Tunnel is tied with New Haven and other projects that will link up the UNTH area to Coal Camp. I am not looking at where Enugu State is going to be in 2007, I am looking at where Enugu State will be by October 25 this year. By this date, we are working hard to see that we finish the teaching hospital, finish the tunnel, the link road and the judiciary complex. By October 25 also we are hoping to have finished the columns on the International Conference Center, to have roofed 2 hostels at the university, 4 faculty buildings and the bulk of the residential buildings, to have done the earth work on the roads. We are taking it stage by stage, by February, March next year we hope to have completed the conference center, the university, Loma Linda Housing Estate, and many other projects. We are going to face aggressively the rural road construction, between March and April next year until we leave. I must confess that some of the roads we did have broken down. If you notice, some of the roads we did in the first term have broken down. May be they did not do appropriate earth work or it was done in a hurry, because we were in a hurry when we got into government and STRABAG actually suggested that we should leave the earth work for a complete rainy season to go through before asphalting, so because we were in a hurry I told them to go on and asphalt it. So there are certain road repairs we are going to do before we leave and consolidate the reform process, so we are even looking at that time now. I am looking at it in stages, I am looking at October 25, February, March and then get down the end of the year before we start talking about when we are leaving. We still have a long time.

I just want to find out if this N36 billion you are spending on these capital-intensive projects is being sourced internally or have you taking a loan?

No. I said it is a commitment of up to N36 billion. So some of it must have been paid because some of the works are 50% completed. So it is the total of all the infrastructural projects. We will make it. We don't have to spend N36 billion, we have already paid part of it.

Was the Senate President actually invited to the opening of the Enugu House?

Yes he was there. He was invited, but he did leave because he said he had an important administrative session. You see, there was some miscommunication at the Enugu House. The time was 9 am, that was what was advertised but, they had the arrival of the Vice President at 10.30 am. So it is an issue that people will have to take note of. Nigerians are not waiting any more, when you fix a time, they are there. That was why a lot of people came by 9 am but, the Vice President was expected by 10.30 am, so he came and left but he was certainly invited. I'm sure you are well aware that I traveled to Lagos to join in the reception that Hill Top Club had for him.

You have not said anything about the just concluded National Conference, the agitation by the South-South and the position of the Arewa, that is agitation for the increase in allocation/resource control to the region. Secondly, the meeting that the South-East, Ndigbo held recently with the Middle Belt, how do you feel about it?

Remember a couple of years ago, we were at Usman Dan Fodio University, Sokoto, where we gave a lecture on "National Conference: By Whom and For Whom?" where we posited that under a democratic system there is conference everyday. Nigerians are having conference on a daily basis. What we are doing is conference, we are talking; it does not necessarily need to be formalized. So the dialogue between The Nigeria Central, what I prefer to call the Nigeria Central and the South-South, South-East is part of on-going dialogue, its part of conferencing. The problem with formalizing such conferences as you could see in the National Conference is that people take positions and they have positions reflecting their perceived constituency. So rather than Nigeria being the constituency, they take positions based on whoever they believe sent them to the conference. You have a lot of posturing, playing to the gallery, attempting to intimidate some people. We believe that there should be conference everyday that is the essence of dialogue. Britain, American has had their constitution for 200 years or more. I believe that as time goes on we can refine some of those things.

When we talk about resource control I believe it is an inalienable right of people to have control of resources derived from where they live, but it is acceptable in principle, it is acceptable in principle that people control resources derived from where they originate. However when you live in a comity of nations, because what you have is a comity of other ethnic nations that make up the country Nigeria, the issue goes far beyond 25% or 50% or 10%. The issue is how do these sons and daughters of the area now geographically called Nigeria live together? How do they relate to each other? How do they share their resources which is true federalism, structural federalism. How do they police or defend themselves? How do they relate with other nation-state under that umbrella? I am saying that the issues are much more deeper than 25% or 50% or 5%. You have to look at the holistic picture, it is give and take, is there something you are gaining by not having 100 per cent control of your resource? Like your not allowing some people share those resource, is there something you are gaining in return? Either in terms of human resource, either in terms of utility, or in terms of management or in terms of goodwill and if the conditions were to be reversed up to ten years from now, will you be insistent on that position? So I'm saying it is a much more deeper exercise that deserves deeper thoughts and concentration than an issue of number.

We want to believe that the major fallout on the resource control issue is the fact that each state should look inward on the value for mineral resources. I know that there is no state in this country that does not have a major mineral. What are you doing? I know at least coal that Enugu state is known for. Are you looking inwards?

We are glad that a new Minister has been appointed for Solid Minerals who is also involved in the extractive industry initiative and also involved in privatization as part of the economic stake of the nation State. Public attention is focusing on coal and I am looking forward to it. You see these minerals belong to Nigeria directly not to the state where they are found. It is a national wealth, it belongs to the country. However, we are saying that in sharing it, there has to be cognizance of the situation of those from which it is mined or explored.

Taking you back to the International Conference Center in the state. Sir it is quite an enormous project and while we were there and you told us the capacity it could take, the amount being committed to it, what struck me was another case of a white elephant project. Is it viable? This is because I have the idea of the amount of conference that go on in Abuja and Lagos, and citing a project like that here, the essence of tourism facilities is to make them self-sustaining. Do you think this project could be self-sustaining? Are you looking forward to any uncompleted project by the time you leave office?

Come back here March/April next year and you will find out if these projects are feasible. We are not looking at May 2007, by this time next year, we'll run into politics big time, we are going to be involved in politics seriously by this time next year. So no one is going to be talking about completing or not completing anything. That is why we are in a hurry to finish by March/April next year. What you have just said is part of the historical revisionism that has happened in our country over the years. So you are saying that here we cannot support a 5,000 Seater conference center? You are making a mistake. How did we start? We started at the territory of Lagos then Benin joined. Who are the people going for these conferences? Have you thought about it? Are they coming from abroad? Are they not Nigerians? Is it because people tried to rewrite the history of this country? That is why you can think that while Abuja can get a 5,000 capacity that we cannot fill it. Who are the people going for those conferences? Is it a conference of pharmacists or motor parts dealers? Is it a conference of doctors? Is it a conference of academics? Is it a conference of students? Who are the people going for those conferences that they will leave here and prefer to go there rather than to come here? This is a clear historical revision, because if you are going there, you must pass through Enugu; Enugu is not an accident. For you to go to almost 11 States, you must pass through 9th Mile. So you see, let globalization continue in Nigeria and let Nigerians continue to emphasize on excellence and merit. Let's open up Nigeria to the world, then you will see those that will fill the conference venues.

Because some of us are aware that while some of you are doing so well for your people, your colleagues in other states are not doing things affecting the lives of the people. Are governors not encouraging one another?

I don't think it is a fair statement or a fair comparison. People are working hard and they mean well, that's my assessment. I relate with my colleagues on a regular basis and I visit them. I believe everybody is doing well, it depends on the level of exposure that you have had to those people.

A little bit on personal ground, have you ever considered from the time you started up till now something that you did that probably by now you are regretting? Secondly, have you ever had an embarrassing moment?

There are so many things that could have been done differently; quite many. I believe we did not pay adequate attention to the area of forestation. When we went to GRA, you could have seen a lot of trees; we did not pay adequate attention. We had to start putting up signs "Do not cut trees" because we were just cutting trees randomly. Though a lot of these infrastructure developments should have been started much earlier, because if we had started it much earlier in the first term you could see that we could have done it over a 6 to 7 year period at lower cost, maybe lower monthly payment. But I believe that we were not as courageous, because if anybody tells me now that I could be doing a permanent site of a university, I could be doing a teaching hospital. I would not believe it. But when the age retires and you can come in with a lot of youthful idealism, but as needs pile up you now have the temperance of age. So if I have to do it all over again, I would start all these projects from the beginning. Even if it is going to take 7 years, it will still cost less and it will have less impact on the capital outlay of the state. I also believe that out of the innocence of our hearts, out of the purity may be some sort of youthful naivety we really got close to people we had no business with in the first place. I believe they deceived us; they came into our structure pretending to be friends only to go against our people as soon as they got what they wanted. I want to believe that with age and may be with a second chance, you know I came back from the United States. I came back with a lot of 'can do’ spirit, that nothing is impossible. What the Americans call game face. I believe I brought a lot of game face into governance, and in that process put a lot of people under heat. People who could not cope up with my drive and energy. If I were to do it over again I may give them sometime to see whether they can catch up. I've started doing that after 6 years in governance. But if given another chance or opportunity I will start it much earlier. We were just too vigorous, the pipelines and energy were too much and some people could not cope. A lot of people were fired, a lot changed. I also came back with the impression that only word the Nigerians could understand was dismissal, because the difference between our set-up and the set-up over there is that for an American his job is his life. There is nothing like school run e.t.c. but when I came back here I noticed that people regard their actual job as part-time jobs, as if they have another job somewhere else, and there was nothing they could understand like dismissal. So, a lot of people were dismissed and surely a lot of changes were made, but it has taken us over 6 years to see that even those who come in are worse than those who were earlier shoved. The tumble of the Nigerian political arena has really set me up, rather than toughen us, it has softened us. That was why the opposition could not stand us but the reality is that the leadership is being able to wait so that those who are either singing or working can get to you before you continue to hiss, and that you can only gain from time and experience.