Dr. Chimaroke Nnamani speaks on the state of the nation, the race for 2007 presidency and the democratic dividends his government has been bequeathing to the people of Enugu State. He spoke with SYLVESTER ASOYA and UBA AHAM.

A few weeks ago, some foreign missions closed down following what they described as security threat. What is your response to the closure?

I regard the closure of embassies and high commissions as a paradox. It is paradoxical because the practice of foreign relations in Nigeria has not been better. It is comparable to the glorious days of Nigerian diplomacy during the speech of the late Head of State, General Murtala Muhammed at the OAU conference in Addis Ababa. He said Africa had come of age. That was the high point of Nigeria’s foreign policy. I believe that the foreign policy of Nigeria has reached another crescendo. The role of the President in West Africa, in Africa and indeed the world over is commendable. We have a President who has done a lot in the area of security. He has recently done a lot in terms of debt reduction. He has brought development closer to the people, and simplified the concept of the huge burden of loans that African countries owe. He has simplified this in such a way that you can understand it in very concrete terms (comparable to expenditure on education, health, water sources and other areas). And I believe the response of the advanced democracies: the US, U.K, France and so on is partly the result of the diplomacy of President Olusegun Obasanjo. It has become clear that rather than these countries acting out of sense of guilt, they are now acting out of self preservation. He has brought this sensitization and awareness to a certain level that the United Kingdom, America and others have now come to realize that for them to enjoy their wealth, the poverty in Africa has to be substantially reduced. So they are only doing it out of their own self-preservation and interest. There is a clear realization that the huge burden, the huge loans and its devastating effects have to be ameliorated. But many people have not recognized this. But it is clear that most of these results are due to the diplomacy of President Olusegun Obasanjo and his wonderful team there in Abuja. Also, you cannot discuss African foreign relations without clearly recognizing the remarkable role of the President. Is it Guinea, is it Guinea Bissau, is it Cote d’Ivoire, Togo, Congo, Namibia, Sao Tome and Principe? There is really no way you can discuss diplomacy in Africa without mentioning President Obasanjo. So we have a true African President if there is such a term. So the closure of those embassies is an anti-climax.

Rotational Presidency is now in the consciousness of Nigerians. What are your views on this?

I have always been amazed over what I call the intrigues of the elite, the lack of deep debate. The problem is not rotational presidency. What we should be talking about is the pursuit of excellence, the dream team based on experience, a dream team that can be real ambassadors of Nigerians. It is clear that for practical purposes, it is highly unlikely that somebody from the South West geo political zone of this country will be elected president in 2007. But as far as I am concerned, anybody who can vote should also be voted for. So my interest is in the best, I will not discuss in such terms. I don’t believe that the most serious job in Nigeria should be left to mere geographical accident of birth. The pilot of the ship of the nation state has to be the best.

So what is your recipe for selecting the next president of Nigeria?

The guys that are interested should come out and campaign.

Are you one of these guys who are interested?

I think you have seen the remarkable work going on here in Enugu. It is unparalleled in the history of this country. I mean, if you don’t believe it, you better come and see for yourself. We have a state government that is building the permanent site of our state university, a 600- hectares virgin land. The entire master plan is in progress. Now we are not talking about phases. All the buildings are above foundation and some have reached roof level. It is a masterpiece, probably comparable to Obafemi Awolowo University. But we believe that because of the time, and because of the digital era, it will surpass what you have at Ife. You saw the hostels, en suite, taking over 3,000 students each. You saw the faculty buildings, the two cafeterias, the works department, the medical centre, the auditorium with gallery, the over 50 junior staff quarters, the senior staff and professors’ quarters, students union building, including the chapel. Everything is going on. You saw the electrical works, culverts and roads are in progress. So it is a campus set to be handed over by March next year. Then of course, the state-of-the-art medical school which is the teaching hospital with three hostel blocks, each room with toilet and bathroom facilities, the clinical building, administration headquarters, the ultra modern library, the lecture theatres, the anatomy blocks, the pediatrics outpatient pharmacy, the service lab, specialty clinics and the general Outpatients’ Department (ODP), the wards and the staff quarters. Or is it the first dual carriage tunnel in Nigeria. You can see that the central portion is already completed. Very soon they are going to put back the rail tracks and it is set for handover in October. Or is it the third arm, the judiciary block that is going on? It is a modern judiciary building with computerized facilities for court recording of proceedings. Is it the Loma Linda Housing Estate which is 324 state of the art two bed room flats? Or is it the International Conference Centre of three auditoriums and a shopping complex and offices in addition to a 200-bedroom five star hotel? Is it the Ebeano Bye-pass? So there is a lot going on. So one cannot afford the luxury of a ‘presidential escapade’ at this time. My priority is to complete our projects in Enugu State, that is the most important thing and that is what we are thinking about right now.

What exactly are you trying to prove with these numerous projects?

History. I will go philosophical. They say that animals vegetate, human beings do more than that. So there are expectations of man on earth. Man is expected to change the environment for good, man is expected to leave a better society than the one he met. Man is expected to live for a better good. So we see power in Enugu State as providing us with the opportunity to fulfill the basic goals of man which is to influence society, which is to leave a record, which is to be part of history so that when your story is told, you can say that we were here. All the struggles and efforts of man is to make that point, to be counted. What we are trying to do in Enugu State is to be counted. When the story is told, we will be remembered.

What influenced that mindset?

Background, training, personal resolve and an amalgam of dreams and reality. Vision, drive to succeed, and these are basic fundamental drive of any man. But I guess mine is being applied to these areas.

You are particularly conscious of history. Eventually when the history of Enugu State is written, where would you want to be placed?

That we were here. We just didn’t pass on. We really came. And the writers would say! ‘Oh those guys gave it a hundred percent. If it were possible for them to do more, they would have done more. See what they did.’

You are known to have appointed non-indigenes into various positions within the state. Is the effort rewarding?

You have to appreciate the fact that Nigeria started as a tripod and Enugu is one leg of that tripod, one major foundation of that tripod Enugu is to the East what Kaduna is to the North and Ibadan is to the West. For you to have access to about 11 states, you’re coming from the North you will have to go through Ninth Mile. So we are making a conscious effort to restore Enugu’s past glory. You can see that it appears to be working. When we came into office, we had about five banks, now we have over 50. You can see its effect on real estate, its effect on tourism. Enugu is busy, I don’t believe there is any better cosmopolitan city, maybe Lagos. Our appointments are made purely on merit, we always advertise; the head of Water and Sanitation Agency is from Anambra. Some of our projects with development partners allow for competition.

Of course, political appointees are not left out. You can see Festus Adedayo (a Yoruba). So it is a conscious effort to aim for the best and it seems to be succeeding. And all we do basically is about reforms. When we got into office six years ago, we were talking about dividends of democracy and it became clear to us that is was transitional process. When a process is transitional, it means that it is inherently unstable and could be described as experimental. So we felt that for democracy to stand in Nigeria, it means that it is inherently unstable and could be described as experimental. So we felt that for democracy to stand in Nigeria, it is not just the media alone, people have to defend democracy and for the people to defend democracy, they must see something to convince them. And these are water, food, electricity, roads, shelter and provision of an enabling environment for the private sector thrive. These we describe as dividends of democracy. The dividends are what we pay in exchange for their votes. We felt that it is the dividends that will make our people defend democracy. So we dug in, and started addressing infrastructural development. We also have our reform process even though we don’t call it reforms. We have our Community Development Councils which clearly represents these reform as a process for sustainable development at the local level. It was only in 2003 that we became exposed extensively to the Millennium Goals inn addition to my lecture series which also exposed me to basic study of poverty. And it became apparent to us that is was all about a battle to provide basic education to all, battle for gender empowerment and equality, to reduce maternal mortality, to reduce HIV/AIDS scourge and malaria, to provide sustainable environment, provide housing. And we decided to concentrate on poverty reduction and went through series of poverty dialogue. In that process, we started working with development partners, DFID, PATH and other World Bank, Projects like Local Empowerment and Environmental Management Programme (LEEMP) and UNICEF. And when the development partners see a leadership that is visionary, a leadership where there is transparency, a leadership that is safe and secure, where you can talk the language they understand, then of course they are bound to work with you.

We cannot talk about Nigerian politics without making reference to godfatherism. You no longer have a godfather now, so how are you coping?

I never had a godfather. That is why in Enugu State, we say “To God Be The Glory” because we need to remain human, we need to remain simple because we cannot explain why we are where we are, we cannot explain why a state that collects an average allocation of N800 million to N1 billion still manages to execute its projects and still pays salaries and meets other financial commitments. You cannot explain why at this time and age, we are playing major roles in the affairs of our people and appear to be succeeding. We don’t have a godfather, what we have is the ultimate super power which is God. There is nothing like that here and we don’t aspire to be godfathers either.

Could you talk on President Olusegun Obasanjo’s anti corruption crusade against the backdrop that he just launched a presidential library, in addition to a certificate to run The Bells University of Technology?

The anti-corruption drive is certainly working when you consider the fact that some Iroko trees are falling. Iroko trees do not just fall without excuse. There is no doubt that a lot of sensitization and awareness of ills of corruption and its concomitant punishment is going on, and people are much more careful. Even when the brown envelops are being passed, they are passed more carefully. I believe that for you to solve a problem, there must be a diagnosis, if you have diagnosis, you are almost 70 per cent cured. I believe that the most important thing is consciousness and this we have achieved.

I also believe that even the talk about debt relief, the involvement of the World Bank and the acceleration of the reform process are all in response to the anti-corruption drive. On the other hand, you talked about University, University for whom? University for President Obasanjo and his children? Assuming the university belongs to him, I believe that it is for the people, it is for Nigeria. I believe there are other things you could accuse people of, rather than trying to provide university education for Nigerians. I believe that the bulk of Nigerians will benefit from the University because university is not for personal inheritance subject to struggle by future generations. I believe university is for the people. Any Nigerian can build university any day and I will support it. I believe he could be the motivator, the spirit behind the university but I do not think it belongs to him personally.

If you are not in active politics post 2007, what would you be doing?

I will be in medicine. I will be in medical practice, teaching and researching.

Unlike your first tenure, this second term is devoid of rumblings, especially between the executive and the legislature, How did you achieve this?

It is essentially a one-party state and the so-called godfathers, the confusionists are away. They have stayed away. So the state is calm since the last election. You can see that our problems is from outside, not inside. We have a peaceful state, good relationship between the government and other organizations.

Your also sponsored legislators on parliamentary training. Has it paid off?

It has paid off. The dividend is the peace we have. I’m sure you’re aware that our legislature is in the forefront in terms of lawmaking. They have passed some highly innovative bills like the anti-discrimination bill which also includes HIV/AIDS, the widowhood rights bill, the bill for health reforms. So they are certainly doing well.

What would you consider your greatest achievement?

In America, they say it ain’t over until the fat lady says. So I believe it is too early to start talking about greatest achievement. We’ve just started.

There are insinuations that your projects have some similarities with those of Chief Michael Okpara. Are you influenced by Okpara in any way?

Yes there is no leader in the South East that will not have Okpara in mind. We think Okpara, we breathe Okpara on a daily basis. I live in a house built by Okpara, I stay in a bedroom that Okpara had used, and my children live through walls and corridors used by Okpara’s children. If you look across, you will see the legislative assembly built by Okpara, the secretariat was built by Okpara, so we cannot ignore Okpara’s legacies and it has had a lot of influence on us: his drive, his energy, his humility, and his simplicity. He was also a far senior professional colleague. He has a lot of influence on us. Then the great Nnamdi Azikiwe. I told you about history, I told you about the tripod. We just see ourselves as holding a banner given to us by a long history of great Nigerians: Nnamdi Azikiwe, Eyo Ita, Michael Okpara, Akanu Ibiam, Odumegwu Ojukwu, Ukpabi Asika Jim Nwobodo and Christian Onoh. So we represent a tradition, a strong heritage. We represent an unbroken record of vibrancy and achievement. We know what we represent. The shoes of Okpara and Azikiwe are too big for us.

For clarity purposes, could you talk on hour relationship with the Senate President, Ken Nnamani ?

You know that the new Senate President is probably the main beneficiary of our four-year struggle with the opposition here in Enugu State (being elected to replace Senator Nwobodo). So I don’t think there is any greater personal beneficiary of our struggle than Senator Ken Nnamani. So we associate with him. He is a product of our political structure. But before I move on, one can say clearly that being young men in politics, it will be a celebration of the fact that six years in politics, we’ve been able to produce a Senate President, Ministers INEC Commissioner, Legislators, D.G. NMA and produced an entirely new political class in Enugu State. What we have from top to bottom in Enugu State is a new political class. So it is a great achievement. I believe the emergence of the new Senate President has to be celebrated, and we did that in Enugu. We brought him down here with 20 senators and over 40 members of the House of Representatives. State activities were closed for almost two days. He was received like a President, and Enugu was agog.

But today Enugu does not seem to be receiving good media reports once the subject is the Senate President?

I did not make him Senator, I certainly did not. A few days ago, I had to call the attention of my Chief Press Secretary to the headline of TRIBUNE saying that I made the Senate President. We are not are not in that class. We don’t believe in making people. The alpha and omegas, (the men who believe that they have right to life and death, and Silicon godfathers, the men who forget that they are just mere mortals, that they cannot predict the next minute) are the ones who make such claims. So we did not make anybody. We worked together and in the process of working together, they emerged as Senators. So if anything, God made all of us. Certainly we did not. For the so-called adverse publicity, things like that don’t worry me. I read those things and the good I can get out of them I take, and make adequate improvement. The only thing that can worry me in Enugu State is any attempt to delay the projects. That is the only thing that will give me concern. Our priority is to make the place peaceful, secure for the private sector to continue to grow.

Your don’t seem to enjoy traveling like other government functionaries. Why?

There is nothing wrong in traveling. Those who visit Europe and other parts of the world have reasons for doing so. But I’m in love with Enugu state. I have a genuine desire to be here. I visit the projects almost on a daily basis. So if there is any delay, I notice it. I wouldn’t spend 16 hours in an aeroplane just waiting for the plane to land. I live like a king here and I enjoy being here. If I’m on a vacation, I can go to my village or Republic of Benin. So I enjoy my stay here because I’m somebody here. Even if I have to travel, my mind is always here. So there is no use.

Why are you executing all these projects when it is just few years to 2007?

The power we have is the power to do good. We are in search of a place in history, we want to be counted. We are doing it for posterity. And we are doing it because we resolved to do it. I wish we had done it earlier. By now, we should have finished and be using the university and the medical school. But I’m glad we will finish it before 2007.

Looking at your projects, people sometimes wonder about who will eventually succeed you. Have you thought of that?

It does not bother me. I’m not worried because it is the wish of the father that the son will be greater than him. I believe that tomorrow will always be greater than today. I have no doubt that those who will take over from us, if we have to play a role in it, will be better educated, probably younger, more digital, more hardworking, more humane and so on. So I have no doubt that we will be handing over to a government much better in 2007. That is our wish.

Why did you embark on the School Meal Plus programme?

I’m sure you know there are other partners. The school Meal Plus programme is part of our reform process here in Enugu. After providing our poverty reduction strategy, we went into some short-term early implementation. The School Meal Plus Programme is more than a meal, it is where the index child appear from a meal a day, receives an annual check-up. We look at his dentition, his vision, hearing and attention deficit disorder, looking at weight measurement and growth parameters for the index child. For the siblings, we also provide care to make sure that they are in educational system. When the mother is pregnant, we ensure that she receives care. And of course we provide nutritional supplementation where needed.

This programme has improved school enrolment to over 200 percent. So you can see that we are also directing our minds to the implementation of the Millennium Development Goals. Through this School Meal Programme, you can reduce poverty, child mortality, maternal mortality, you can apply gender-empowerment and equality. You can also provide Universal Primary Education. We also have our programme on wealth creation. We have what encourages entrepreneurship. We are working on a business pact with small and medium scale enterprises advisory centre and other associations. We have micro credit schemes and Neighbourhood Association for data collection and for security surveillance. You know Enugu is the pilot of pilots, it is the pilot state for community policing. We give credit to Tafa Balogun, former Inspector General of Police for that.

We have also gone a long way in the criminal justice reforms with Access to Justice, now Security Justice and Growth Scheme. We have automated the case system in the DPP’s office. We have had reform process in customary courts with human capacity building. We work with our traditional rulers in the areas of alternative dispute resolutions and record keeping. There is an on-going citizenship rights and mediation centre. We have received civil procedures and court rules. So a lot is going on here. We have also gone through some reform process in the area of communication. Our state newspaper, broadcasting stations, printing press and other services are working on reputable standard of service delivery, expenditure management, expenditure tracking, revenue generation at response time, among others.

Your state seems to have a lot of space for women than other states. Why?

Yes, that is also part of the Millennium development Goals. We have about the highest number of women in the state legislature, four in all. We have the highest women in the local government system. I have lost count of how many women chairmen we have. There are also supervisors appointed on merit. I have also lost count of women permanent secretaries, so there is a lot going on. And I believe the federal government has also done a lot in that regard. There are a lot of serious areas under the control of women in Nigeria today.

The News (Lagos), July 10, 2005.