Newswatch: Congratulations on the success of the historic Southern Forum held December 19. How did the idea of holding the meeting come about and why was Enugu chosen as the host state?

Nnamani: As I stated during my opening address at the meeting, it was just a spontaneous exercise, a chance meeting of governors, discussing the need for such meeting. We all happened to have been thinking about the same thing. We called around and within 12 hours, all the 17 governors including the governor of Lagos State welcomed the idea. That was the first one that was supposed to hold on December 17 and subsequently on December 18 before it was postponed because of the air crash. It was spontaneous. It was my colleagues that suggested Enugu and said whether I could host, I said yes, I wanted to host it.

Newswatch: How were you able to cope with the logistics of hosting a meeting of that magnitude within such a short time?

Nnamani: The conference made us to do a lot of things we should have done much earlier. You can see that our legislators will be very happy because the legislative building was used. It was an incentive to refurbish the place. You saw the water fountain fully in place, you saw the legislative assembly had changed its seats, thee woods were polished, air-conditioners and the public address system were repaired, some old pictures, were brought back and we did a lot of repainting, and resurfaced some roads around here. We had to resurface them. We put the street lights back and cleaned up the whole place. So it was worth it. The logistics would stay after our
guests must have departed.

Newswatch: Some Nigerians believe that this meeting is a reaction to the recent one by northern political leaders where they insisted that the presidency should return to the North in 2007. What is your reaction to this perception?

Nnamani: I said to you, it was not a reaction. But for those who feel that way, they have a legitimate reason to feel that way. This meeting should have come much earlier. This meeting is not about the presidency; it is not about who becomes the president or where it is zoned or which zone takes the presidency. That is not what the meeting is about. The meeting is about Nigeria and the Nigerian presidency, the structure of the nation, how do we govern ourselves, how do we live together, how do we relate to each other, how do we share our inherent resources, how do we protect ourselves, how do we relate to other nation? It is about governance, it is about state creation, it is about sharing our resources. Those are much more important than one individual holding political office. These are far deeper issues involved than who holds what. Holding political office is not synonymous with development of the area that produces the president.

Newswatch: The Historic Enugu meeting has come and gone. Despite the pessimism by certain people that Southerners cannot take a common position on national issues, the outcome of the meeting has proved otherwise, How do you feel and as host governor, how were you able to mobilise the caliber of delegates that attended the meeting and took a common position on fundamental issues?

Nnamani: It was not a personal effort. We give credit to God and my colleagues, the senate president, the deputy speaker of the House of Representatives, to the leaders of the various organizations – Afenifere, Yoruba Council of Elders, YCE, the South-South Peoples Assembly and Ohaneze Ndigbo. It is certainly not something that was done by one person or one government or one state. You can see that the response, the enthusiasm, and the passion it generated is not something that can be engineered. As I speak to you, there are no flights coming into Enugu but s lot of these people came by road. Some chartered buses to come here. They went to the airport and there was no flight, they took off from the airport to come to Enugu by road. You saw the caliber of of people at the meeting. How do you arrange to bring Falae and Ebitu Ukiwe? Bring Anenih? How do you arrange to bring all these people under one roof? Olu Falae sitting side-by-side with Anenih and Ebitu Ukiwe. Those that are pro-government, those that are anti-government cutting across religion, cutting across tribe. When you came into that hall, you couldn’t know who was Igbo or who was Yoruba or Ijaw, Itshekiri. Could you identify? You could not! From the assemblage, you could not even identify where the meeting of as taking place. From the assemblage, you could not say whether it was taking place in Igboland or Yorubaland. Everybody just melted in. There were as many Yorubas as South-Southerners and South-Easterners.

Newswatch: So, what was the magic wand that made the Southern leaders to come together and speak with one voice?

Nnamani: There was no magic rather than God's benevolence and God's destiny. I think it was destined to happen the way it happened; everybody thinking about the same thing at the same time. It was a spontaneous reaction to the prevailing political circumstances in the country. It is a sudden realisation that under true democracy, everything is on the table. You can’t assume anything because democracy brings freedom, freedom of speech. Then more importantly, true democracy brings restoration of dignity. The man who has self-respect and dignity would want to negotiate his place in the polity. And that is the beginning of what happened. Sudden self-realisation that they can actually negotiate these things going on based on mutual respect, based on equality - the Nigerian project.

Newswatch: The issue of restructuring of the country and true federalism have almost become a refrain at all meetings of the Southern leaders. How are we sure that the position taken at the meeting will not end up as a mere political posturing?

Nnamani: It can't be posturing. From what you I saw, what are they posturing for? Within the next few months, you will see what will happen. What are they posturing for? These are serious issues that have to do with all the restiveness in the land, the disquiet because people are unhappy. That is why they are resorting to all sorts of militia. It means there is a problem in the land. So, how can you posture with that? You can't posture with realities. You can't posture with the survival of Nigeria. It is not posturing, it is not positioning.

Newswatch: At the meeting, there was a definite mandate for either the South-East or South-South to produce the next president of Nigeria in 2007. Considering your excellent

Nnamani: As I told you earlier on, for me, this is not about fixation to political office or to public office. There is certainly no fixation. It is not what we are thinking about. What we are thinking about is how to move Enugu Stage forward, how to be part of the Nigerian debate. There are much more fundamental issues for me, from a personal point of view than who holds political office. There are much more fundamental issues that if they are addressed; there will be less fixation or less interest in who becomes the president. I have always believed that the debate is what I describe as elitist deceit. There is elitist debate going on, disruptive debate. The debate is not about who becomes president. The debate is about poverty, hunger, ignorance, disease and gender empowerment. It is about the Universal Basic Education. It is about child mortality, maternal mortality; it is about HIV/AIDS. And currently, the debate should be about the aviation crisis. I am going to Abuja tomorrow, (December 21) and I am going to spend about five to six hours on the road and come back the next day. That means that I will be spending 12 hours for a journey which is just about 45 minutes by air. So, there is an aviation crisis. I believe we need to target our people to the correct debate. It is about the structure of the country. It is about resource control. It is not about who holds political office. Because of the level of political maturity and enlightenment, whoever holds political office is the business of that person. There is no guarantee that it translates to development. That is my personal view.

Newswatch: But all these issues you have enumerated have a lot to do with leadership because you need a good leader to translate them to reality. Having made Enugu as a model state, don't you think it is necessary for you to go to the national level to perform the same feat?

Nnamani: It is not necessary. What is necessary is that we have 18 months left for us to make sure we anchor Enugu State successfully and transfer to a new set of Enugu people who can continue from where we stopped. What is necessary for us is to realise the Enugu vision.

Newswatch: We are talking about the Nigerian project, if... (Nnamani cuts in)

Nnamani: Wait, please. The Nigerian project is not about who becomes the president. The Nigerian project is about the true structure, reflective of the rainbow coalition, reflective of the true microcosm, the true melting pot for the different tribes and the different language groups that constitute the area called Nigeria. How do they live in comfort and trust in each other? How do they share responsibilities? That is the Nigerian project, not on who becomes the president.

Newswatch: The problem we have in this country is leadership. If we don't have a leader who has a vision and mission, we may not get out of the woods.

Nnamani: No, no, no. You can't have leadership in a vacuum. You have to have the structural base for leadership to be effective. The issue of leadership is causing distraction because that is why they are saying that because of the constitutional review is not about third term campaign. The constitutional review is about the factors that disunite or unite us. It is about true fiscal federalism, it is sharing resources, it is about state creation. It is about so many other issues but because of the fixation people have on leadership, they are now saying because of third term or no third term, we are not talking about the constitution. That is why we had to bring the debate back to what concerns all of us than the personal fortune of one man. This is my personal opinion. The debate has to come back to true fiscal federalism rather than extension or third term, to drive the constitutional debate based on the Nigerian project.

Newswatch: Now that it has been decided by the Southern Forum that either the South-East or South-South should produce the next president of Nigeria, how do you intent to ensure that the two zones work harmoniously so that there will be no rancour as regards which zone should get it in 2007?

Nnamani: From my own stand point, I am going to be interested in working with all the zones to realise in full, the goals and decisions of the meeting, especially in the areas of constitutional review, state creation, resource control, census. The area of the realisation of the presidency will occupy less priority for me. This is because I believe that those other issues are more fundamental for me. I am not going to begin now to start working on how to realise the presidency between the South-East and South-South. I am being honest with you. My priority is; how do we achieve the more fundamental objectives of true physical and fiscal federalism? How do we share our resources? I am not going to start running around, how do we realise the ambition of the South-East and South-South presidency.

Newswatch: Are you not bothered about it, especially when you consider the fact that the North appears to be determined to secure the plum job in 2007?

Nnamani: It is not a question of being bothered. The current debate now is hunger, disease, ignorance. It is about the aviation crisis, not who becomes president.

Newswatch: Based on certain developments in the country, the Northerners have a different idea of the Nigerian project. And that is why they are insisting that power should return to the North in 2007. In view of your position on restructuring the Nigerian political system, how would the Southern Forum convince the North to see the Nigerian project in the same perspective?

Nnamani: The issue of Northerners and Southerners has long disappeared. We came together, Northern region, Western region, Eastern region, then Mid-West joined. Subsequently, we were divided into states. We are now 36 states and six geo-political zones. So, the Northerner, as it were, cannot be talked about in that sense in the current polity. You can talk about states and geo-political zones. So, I try to avoid looking at somebody saying he is a northerner. I don't look at people from that perspective. I look at you from your geo-political zone or your state or as a Nigerian. I have no doubt that there are many people who live in the northern parts of Nigeria who are interested in the Nigerian project. Certainly, the Nigerian project is to reinforce the unity, retain national stability, maintain peace, decrease the restiveness and restlessness in the Niger-Delta and other areas. So the Nigerian project is important for both those who are from the South or who are from the North of Nigeria.

Newswatch: In the communiqué issued by the Southern Forum at the end of the meeting, it threatened to boycott the 2007 election unless the North is willing to accept its common position. Don’t you foresee this as capable of heating up the polity?

Nnamani: These are objectives. These are conditions, these are goals set. Nobody is expecting that there wouldn't be a constitutional review before 2007. One expects that there will be a constitutional review. I believe it is already in process. The recommendations have been made and I believe they will be debated. There will be hearing. So, we don't expect there won't be constitutional review before 2007 to address fundamental issues.

Newswatch: But from what is currently happening at the National Assembly, the Northern legislators are not disposed towards the constitutional review?

Nnamani: I don't think so. You have to separate people's views on tenure or people's views on speculated third term or no third term from the constitutional review. Constitutional review is much wider than the so-called third term or extension. That is what I have been trying to explain all along.

Newswatch: Ideally, how can democracy and true federalism work perfectly in Nigeria?

Nnamani: Mutual respect, dignity, negotiation, discussions.

Newswatch: The eloquent manner in which you presented your welcome address at the forum shows clearly that you understand the problems of Nigeria as a young man imbued with a mission and vision. Are you convinced that Nigeria can move at the speed of your mission and vision?

Nnamani: I am a product of a system. I have a background, I have antecedents. Not everybody has the privilege to have that background or have that antecedent or have the education or exposure. So, the level of understanding is not going to be the same. In my opinion, there is a contraction of the middle class while the lower class - the masses are highly expanded. So, we have many people who are poor chasing few resources. You are talking about a system where the poverty level is somewhere between 67 percent and for some people almost 80 percent. Look at the human development index; we are at the bottom in the world. Look at the use of the computer and the infant mortality data. We are bottom four. There is so much poverty in the land. For a very long time, there was leadership abandonment. This era of democracy is only trying to restore Nigeria in terms of its perception by the international community, loosen the so-called pariah status, debt relief, providing for privatisation, develop the oil market, some level of deregulation of the energy sector and even public service reforms. So, we just got started. So you have the masses trying to find a way of taking care of their daily bread and, of course, you have the elite, you have an elitist class whose business has nothing to do with the people. You have a political class of artisans - people playing politics without vision, without ideology. Going from one party to the other, from one regime to the other, from one government to the other. Whenever they are unhappy or dissatisfied, they move to another. So, it is that political class that controls the debate and it is important for them to emphasise things that will divide the masses so that they maintain their relevance because if the masses are not divided, if there is no tension, they have no job. They have no business to talk about. So, I believe that the debate should be about the welfare of the masses. The debate should be about poverty. The debate should be about the aviation crisis, because if you provide the fundamental structure that is reflective of the true nation that we are, there will be less fixation on who holds political office.

Newswatch: You have always insisted that once the right calibre of leadership is put in place with the right structure, no Nigerian will bother where he or she comes from. With the position of the Southern Forum that either the South-East or South-South should produce the next president, does it modify your view on this issue?

Nnamani: No, I am a leader and a leader carries the message. What we did was to articulate the message of our people. That does not contradict the personal opinion we have. I still believe that the nation state has to be piloted by the best, has to be piloted by "A" Team. The only way the country can be saved is by having the best captain or pilot move the ship of nation state to keep it afloat. But there again, some people can say you can find them in the South-East or South-South. That counter balances the argument. They say, well you can find it anywhere.

Newswatch: I believe that the position the Southern Forum took at the meeting was meant to avoid a situation whereby a certain section of the country will always lord it over others. Is that correct?

Nnamani: No, we are not talking about anybody lording it over others. We are not talking abut any section of the country. We are talking about Nigeria. That is why you did not hear a lot of vituperations. There wasn't any name calling; even though there was passion, nobody was trying to incite anybody. It was not a sectional meeting. You have to be a good Yoruba to be good Nigerian, a good 1gbo to be a good Nigerian. There is difference between ethnocentrism and ethnicity – good neighbourly feeling. So, all that we want to build a big coalition, strengthen those who live in the southern part of the country and reach out to those who live in the northern part of the country and find those who share similar goals and aspirations and work with them.

Newswatch: Through your series of public lectures you had succeeded in arousing national consciousness about the problems of Nigeria. But sadly, it seems the public lectures have been discontinued. Why?

Nnamani: No, what we are trying to do is to concentrate on the projects we have on hand in Enugu State. I am sure you have had chance to visit this place. You have seen the projects - you've seen the university, you've seen the teaching, hospital. I am sure you saw the conference centre; you saw the judiciary headquarters, the tunnel. I can't be doing all these things and still be running around giving lectures when we know we are leaving in 18 months or less. So, we need to get the projects done by March and April before we get back on the road.

Newswatch: You seem to be an expert in so many fields of human endeavour. How did you develop it?

Nnamani: I am not an expert. I am just a youngman fighting for a place under the sun, trying to become part of the history of my people; trying to leave behind legacies for my people, trying to see whether I can maintain the heritage set by my fathers and forefathers - the heritage of excellence, heritage of hard work, heritage of confidence.

Newswatch: How can one emulate you by having the expertise in virtually all fields?

Nnamani: (Laughs) There is something we say in Enugu State and sometimes people tend to trivialize it. We say, "To God be the Glory." How can you rationalise God's blessings, God's doing? How do you rationalise it? There are certain things you can't just explain, so you give glory to God. So, we say "To God be the Glory."

Newswatch: When people look at what you have achieved in Enugu State, they tend to believe that the problem of Nigeria is that its people have not recognised the need for generational change. Don't you think that the time is ripe for generational change in the Nigerian leadership?

Nnamani: I am not looking at it that way. I am looking at it from the human capacity building, from institutional capacity building. I believe that our problem is that we have not developed the capacity even to spend the money we have.

Newswatch: But in the Western world, the trend is that younger people are being given the opportunity to steer the ship of state.

Nnamani: They have the institutional capacity. It is not too much of an age thing. It has to do with exposure. I mean, Ronald Reagan was there, George Bush Snr. was there. Reagan was in his 70s. It was only recently that you had Bill Clinton and then George Bush Jnr. There is no doubt that there is a generational shift in leadership. That is also consistent with globalisation with access to information technology, with privatisation and developmental governance. Leadership is now where the leader is the chief executive. The buck stops on your table. The days of sitting down and people will bring papers to you is gone.